Comments on: Tears at Christchurch parish plan meeting

By: Greg

Greg — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 23:51:25 +0000

Bishop Paul needs to be decisive and make unpopular but prudent decisions. It has been over 8 years since the first lethal quake.
Accordingly after some quick research, I correct my statement from above.
1. Toastmasters NZ has 5000 members not 2000. By the figures below there’s about 7000 Mass goers under 40 years nationally (?)

2. NZ Catholic reports Mass Counts here: https://www.nzcatholic.org.nz/2016/03/15/most-2015-diocesan-mass-counts-down/
“Auckland: 35,718; Hamilton: 9451; Palmerston North: 6693 (2014, 6193); Wellington: (no figure); Christchurch: 9961 (2014, 10,497); Dunedin: 4798.”

3, Christchurch diocese published useful data on demographics from a 2013 survey here : https://ourfaith.chchcatholic.nz/2019/07/11/survey-graphs/
The data in (3) shows that SIX YEARS ago over half of the Sunday Mass attending Catholics are 60 or over. 30% over 70.
The data in (3) also shows that independent adults between 19-40 years were about 15% of Mass attendees. The 40-60 year olds of 2013 were about 30% of attendees.

So, in a very simplistic calculation, in 30 years from those 2013 surveys how many people will be attending Sunday Mass? The 20 year olds will be 50, the 60 year olds will be hopefully near the Beatific Vision.
Let’s say 20% of the recent Mass count surveys. So that is about 2000 people in Christchurch, which is less than half of the Mass count in the current smallest Diocese of Dunedin. Indeed, using the same proportional rule of thumb that means all Dioceses except maybe Auckland might be half the size of contemporary Dunedin.

Given that the 2013 survey was 6 years ago, that means there’s only 24 years to go until until we hit that size. It won’t be a smooth decline/singing anew/re-imagining either because a third of Mass attendees were 70 six years ago. That third of Mass goers is now 76, 77, 78…

By: Greg

Greg — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 22:44:10 +0000

You have my prayers and sympathy.
It’s tough but Bruce might be on the right track, even though it isn’t new, won’t sell any books or make anyone a national touring expert. Grace builds on grace, sin builds on sin.

Maybe, the reason we have surplus churches is because there is a demographic collapse, i.e. in the 45 years and younger group there’s only enough people to some Toastmasters and Rotary clubs. How much am I exaggerating? Toastmasters has about 2000 people nationwide. How many Mass attendees are there under 45?

I cautiously suggest that the major signs of life seem to be in corporatised areas. That is, areas subsidized by the state, schools and some NGO work, and the same-faces diocesan committee/working group enthusiasts.

If the widows-mite that we steward is exhausted on “programs” and, as it’s called in change management, “intiativitis”, then nothing will change. Please try to diagnose root causes, find and understand bright-spots, rather than adhering to office group-think and been trapped by late 20th-C influences.

By: Bruce Jones

Bruce Jones — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 03:22:59 +0000

It IS possible to bring back that 85 % of Catholics who don’t attend church regularly.
All that is required is for the rosary to take precedence in the home over the TV.
TV does two evil things: 1. Reduce the sense of shame.
2. In today’s world promote the glamour of evil.
By saying the rosary the door opens to more intrinsically good aspects which can then be appreciated by the youth,
including and most of all the Real presence. The Sacraments follow as essentials about which the remainder of the
priceless heritage of faith will follow.
Bishops can do wonders by simply advocating family prayer, and taking a leaf out of Bishop Fulton sheens book.
It takes courage to confront those arenas that Catholics do not like to discuss. But they must be faced.
The size of a family for instance. More children, more selflessness, and more attendants at mass.